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Good move!
I bought DVDs not because there’s no fansub or had been fansubbed. Its because it’s a good series and worth the money you spend.
Blaming the fansub industry by the Licensor is a Narrow-minded move by them. In case they forgot, Anime is NOT the MAINSTREAM in the Entertainment Industry (Hollywood Movies, TV series even Gaming Industries are BIGGER than ANime).
Because of this Worldwide Economic Crisis, People tend to prioritize.
Before pointing to others, they should evaluate themselves (licensor). They should increase their distribution area.
They should open branches to Europe, Asia, Middle East, South America. People tend to buy cheaper products (minus shipping cost & middle businessmen).
They should narrow the time for DVD turn out, by releasing early as much as a month after they licensed a Title.
Or perhaps, they should licensed a title in its PRE-PRODUCTION STATE & distribute the DVD on or before it airs in JAPAN.
I know I’m speaking for myself here, but hardly ANY licensor of ANY anime release their titles outside America, and I believe that more than half of the people who watches fansubs aren’t in america, so R1 DVD’s are a no-no for most of the people who don’t live there and, without the subs wouldn’t have any other way of watching (and understanting, since a raw is easy to get, but the language barrier still is a problem). If the licensors would release these shows in free-region DVDs I believe they would sell much better. I for one would probably ship these.
Tnxs Chihiro.
Think about the peoplo who live in terrible places like Brazil ( where i live =/ ) ,the only way to import any series from US is if i sell my kidney , and a series like marimite will NEVER be released here
As I agree with most of the comments above, I’d think there would be one more possitive aspect of the fansubs that favor the licensed title holders. It promotes the hell out out of it to the masses that may want to purchase it. Most times when people buy the titles at the stores or mail order, it’s because they want the collectible aspects of it. Keep in mind I only say most, not all and base this mostly on the fact that those that haven’t the interest most likely wouldn’t be the ones spending the time to keep up to date with what’s being released in Japan in the first place.
thanks! more power to you guys!
So wait, you’re justifying subbing a licensed series by claiming others will do it anyway? What happened to your ethical nous, Kristen?
Enjoy your C&Ds, lolz.
chihiro rockkss!!!
Goddamn Kristen, I thought you have changed and Chihiro have changed, too.
Seems like I was wrong, I guess just sit back and enjoy your C&D.
The industy always talks about “lost sales”, but I’m certain that there is not a substantial difference between the current sales numbers, and the sales numbers if fansubbing did not exist. I am willing to bet a rather large sum of money that the fansub viewers that don’t purchase licensed anime would not have even ventured into the genre without the current availability of fansubs. The industry can’t lose sales it never gained in the first place, and if anything, the fansub scene only enlarges the target market and creates a higher return for broadcast deals, convention, and distribution.
Screw them… they seem to have decided to ignore that it has been proven that music shared via p2p actually INCREASED the sale of music since more folks were made aware of it and the demand for those songs showed a massive increase of sales for those songs/artist.
The same is happening to anime/manga sales in this country as well because of it. Anyway, as it is, it will mostly be years before the networks here will show subbed verses dubbed anime. As for manga, it is always better to have a hard copy you can take and read when and where ever you want than to try an lug a computer system around…
What really bites is when a show gets licened when there is on 2-3 eposides left and a C&D is sent… I think Funmation does it on purpose…just to see what’s hot and then they sit on it for a few years before they release it…. to top it off, they have the balls to bitch about ‘lost’ $’s’ on a series THEY SAT ON FOR THOSE YEARS! And they wonder why…
From what I can see, the DVD’s are released a lot sooner overseas why the ‘iron is hot’.. why can’t American companies do the same??? The same rule also applies to most of the manga as well….
I for one, buy the DVD’s and manga as they are released and oh my poor wallet!!!!
just my nickle…..
Whatever, and who cares? Point blank I buy all the series of any anime that I like. But, like Maria-sama I much more prefer the fansuber translations to the licensor any day .The licensor most always does a horrable translation in op for the language dubb. I guess they assume that it was bought under the assumption that the buyer would not care if dubbed into their language. I buy the DVDs to say I own them, but I keep the fansubs because I enjoy them more in the original language with a good translation.
Besides, when you purchase the DVD, many times there are extras that you cannot get with fansubs.
First of all, why does anyone support license companies in the first place? They are only in business to make a profit. Off free material mind you.
FalseDawn and Mango-chan speak of ethics…. oh common now. Where is the ethics in purchasing DVD distribution rights to turn a profit in the first place? Where is the ethics in most American license company’s that over westernize the script? That rewrite cultural jokes, that refuse to make TL notes for building signs, or books a character reads. That for the most part produce sub par voice overs? Where is the ethics in that? Is Falsedawn and Mango also crying ethics to Gokigenyou? I bet not.
Keep up the good work Kristen and the rest of the Chihiro crew. Your high quality work is the bees knees. License companies need to take lessons from the fansub community. Who does it out of the kindness of their hearts, and not for a quick dollar. <3 chu Chihiro!
I have no trouble with Chihiro continuing to fansub this and feel the effects of Fansubbing have been overblown by many US companies. The only time I’ve watched fansubs and not bought a US release is when the US company edits the release or does a bad translation/dvd authoring job with their release (Funimation is now even producing intentionally bad DVDs that don’t twart pirates, but do screw up playback for paying customers, so it’s unlikely I’ll buy any of their discs in the near future).
Right Stuf does do good releases, so I’ll buy this when they release it, but I’d still like to watch it now, so keep going Chihiro!
That said, I do have to comment on this…
@Lily hime “Off free material mind you.”
What do you mean ‘free material’? You do realize that it does take a lot of money to produce anime in Japan, don’t you?
While I support fansubbers, because otherwise I’d never be able to enjoy quite a few of my favorite shows, I do understand that ‘making a profit’ isn’t un-ethical. When a US company releases a quality dvd, I’ll buy it. If a R2 DVD has good subs and I can afford it, I’ll buy it. if a paid download is available with good quality video and subs, i’ll buy it.
You do realize that if the Japanese companies can’t make a profit, then NO ANIME WILL BE MADE, right?
I’ll never understand why some people think that all anime should be ‘free’ for the taking.
I still dont really get the logic behind that?
If u argument like that on Marimate – why didn’t u do so on Skip Beat? could you please explain that to me?
— this is not ment offensive i just wanna ask/know why? Or did i miss something? —
Nobody else in my family is any good at watching things with subtitles… trying to go back and forth between reading the subtitles and watching the action on the screen just confuses them for some reason. There’s been multiple instances because of this where I’ve bought DVDs *because* I saw the subbed version. I thought “hey, my wife would enjoy this show” or “my kids would enjoy this” but I know they can’t deal with the subtitles, so I get the DVDs with the English dub for them.
@bk: I don’t speak for Chihiro, but my random guess as to why they stopped on Skip Beat is because it’s available online with subtitles for free from the publisher, so they’d be duplicating a service the publisher already provides. In the case of Marimite it’s only available as DVDs and there’s no online version available (as far as I can tell in my brief look around the publisher’s websites), so by continuing to sub it they’re providing a service the publisher doesn’t offer.
My personal ethics are telling me it’s still a bad thing, but at least that logic makes sense.
Get lost pcj, ethics my butt. Your downloading them anyway.
Yeah it’s pretty much fail logic they’re using. Just because “someone” is going to do it doesn’t mean it has to be Chihiro.
@pcj: It’s awesome you realize it’s a bad thing…Too bad you can’t follow that all the way though.
I haven’t been watching this series at all, actually (even before it got licensed), just saw the thread about it. I watch a couple other series that Chihiro subs though, which is why I follow the blog.
“I still dont really get the logic behind that?
If u argument like that on Marimate – why didn’t u do so on Skip Beat? could you please explain that to me?
— this is not ment offensive i just wanna ask/know why? Or did i miss something? —”
Skip Beat is available as a legal fansub on crunchy, thats the difference. Maria isn’t, and we’ll likely have to wait till october/november at the earliest for the dvd’s to be released. Skip Beat is being released as a download pretty much as soon as it airs.
Why can’t everyone get along and just leave everyone else alone…
It’s not like people here are representatives of rightstuff or Chihiro…
There are way bigger problems in the world than this…
Instead of using so much brain power on this, use it on something more important, such as the failing economy, poverty, etc.
This fansub has almost nill impact on any of the finances relating to marimite. It’s a worthless thing to argue about.
So, just watch the anime or don’t. Period.
Wow……Every time a group drops a show, many people come and complain. This is the only time I’ve seen people who came and complained about NOT dropping a show. Don’t give me the moral BS. I don’t care about R1, and will never care about it. It can collapse into oblivion for all I care.
Skip Beat is offered online, for free even. It needs no fansubs. Maria is NOT, so if you want to watch it NOW, you WILL download fansubs.
I’m starting to guess that all the complaints come from fans of Skip Beat, who ae pissed we dropped that and not Maria.
Simple logic – without fansubs, I wouldn’t even know many good series exist. And would have no interest in buying unknown stuff for hundreds of dollars (shipping included). Keep up the good work of bringing Marimite to fans of the world.(which is not only US. It’s big)
I’m very glad to see that you’re continuing to sub this series. I’ve seen too many fansub groups drop an anime the second it’s licensed either because they’re lazy or they’re too scared they MIGHT get sued. This is a poor decision. It greatly increases the time fans will have to wait before they see new episodes, this is especially true when there’s only one group subbing something.
It also makes the the fans (atleast some of them) resent the licensing companies for getting in the way of their anime viewing.
I also agree with the person who said that many licensing put out sub par material because they rewrite jokes, translate poorly, refuse to include TL notes and create low quality dubs. I’ve seen way too much of this. Infact, there have been a couple series where I bought the DVDs because I liked the fansubs yet the translations in the DVDs were of much poorer quality than the fansubs.
Personally, I think fansubbing helps the anime industry alot more than it hurts it. People won’t buy expensive DVDs of a show they’ve never seen. They’ll prefer to download them and watch them for free before they commit to an expensive purchase. That’s what I do anyways. I probably wouldn’t have bought a single one of my anime DVDs if I hadn’t first downloaded the series to try it out.
If I ever realize my dream of starting my own licensing company, it’ll be run more like a fansub group. I’ll not only allow groups that’ve started subbing my series to continue, I’ll encourage them to do so. I won’t change jokes or rewrite dialog for the sake of cultural accessibility, I will include TL notes on all DVDs and there will be a menu option to turn them on and off, there will be printed explanations of name suffixes, the works. And if I ever do a dub, I will NOT use the typical American dub actors (with the exception of one or two if I think they fit). Seriously, it seems like it’s always the same 5 people doing all the dub voices for EVERY ANIME.
The current standards are why I’m afraid to buy the Azumanga DVDs. I don’t wanna see all the neat jokes and TL notes disappear and get replaced by crappy rewrites.
Wow, that was one helluva rant I went on there.
Ich liebe euch Jungs, dass ihr denn Anime trotz der Lizenzierung weiter macht finde ich Klasse.
Vielen Dank. thx.
“FalseDawn and Mango-chan speak of ethics…. oh common now. Where is the ethics in purchasing DVD distribution rights to turn a profit in the first place? Where is the ethics in most American license company’s that over westernize the script? That rewrite cultural jokes, that refuse to make TL notes for building signs, or books a character reads. That for the most part produce sub par voice overs? Where is the ethics in that?”
You don’t really get the gist of ethics, do you, Lily Hime? A lot of what you mentioned there isn’t a question of ethics at all (especially “sub par” voiceovers, which are actually just your opinion). Ethics != opinion. Purchasing DVD distribution is ethical because they’re paying for the original content to make this profit – something that fansub groups don’t do, and yet a number (including Chihiro) expect donations for ripping off the anime creators.
Licensors 1 – 0 Fansubbers
The rest aren’t a question of ethics – however, when a license is decided, it is decided with the full knowledge of the Japanese company that the licensing company will do a satisfactory job of the translation (Westernized or not) and the dub. These have been officially sanctioned by the Japanese ANIME CREATORS, whereas fansubs aren’t. So who are you to say that it’s wrong to Westernize? That it’s wrong not to use TL notes (when actually most TL notes are unnecessary in official releases)? As I say though, those aren’t a question of ethics.
And Chihiro make themselves look worse not only for not dropping it but also using a lame excuse for continuing it (“if we don’t do it, someone else will, so we might as well do it”) – I’ve never heard such a bad excuse before!
has any fansub group ever been sued for doing subs on licensed shows?
None have ever been stupid enough in the past to continue past getting C&D notices. Though it is technically possible, especially if the group’s operations is based in the country that the license covers, which in this case, Chihiro are.
lol. if fansubing “would” do any harm to the companies with the licenses. then i certainly wouldnt have a bunch of DVD’s that I bought after watching the fansubbed show.
and belive me. that S&H + import tax costs me more than the DVD itself XD
let them say all they want. the only companies I dont buy material are exactly the ones that either do a lousy job translating (I agree. those translated jokes are horrible) and the ones that start taking punches to the people that makes the shows on this side of the globe popular. and later on say that theyre losing sales.
rofl. they would not have sales of that magnitude if it werent for your fansubbing “bandits” 😛 . let them keep that up. and theyll be back at beggin for sales at conventions.
as always thanks and keep up the good work chihiro 😉
Purchasing DVD distribution is ethical because they’re paying for the original content to make this profit – something that fansub groups don’t do, and yet a number (including Chihiro) expect donations for ripping off the anime creators.
-Please note that we do not expect donations. We ask for them when they are needed, but I do not expect anyone to donate out of like obligation or anything. Only free will/desire.
And yet, I note the coffers getting low, and suddenly Chihiro decides to continue to sub a show that’s licensed.
Also while I am a fan of Skip Beat, Chihiro dropping it, forced me into signing up with Crunchyroll (until that moment I’d never even heard of it). If they’d continue to sub it, I wouldn’t have signed up thus impacting the bottom line of Crunchyroll and the Anime production studios that have contracted with it.
In the very same way, Chihiro’s decision to continue to sub a show that is licensed and *will* come out in my region makes it totally unnescessary to purchase the DVD’s to merely watch the show (the occasional DVD extra not withstanding).
That is how fansubbing hurts the industry, and that is why this decision is unethical and foolish.
Before you buy perfume, you use the tester first and see if it matches your body chemistry. That’s the same thing as watching a fansub. Supposed you saw a nice anime and bought its dvd without any background of what the characters were talking about, and then when you watched it, you were surprise that they were talking nonsense and the story was just disappointing, how would you feel? You would feel cheated! If an anime is really good, it would attract people to buy the original dvd after seeing the fansubs. That’s how it works. Fansubbing communities like chihiro (especially chihiro) are helping the licensing companies to promote their products.
i just wanna say thank you! and thank you!!
@philiangees: You just proved my point. Skip Beat is avalable NOW, Mari is NOT. Nobody wants to wait 3-6 months to see the rest of the anime. I don’t care how ethical it is, fans want to see it now, and they can’t, unless someone subs it.
Wow, anime is a right to many here, huh?
@DmonHiro
This isn’t going to turn ugly, but truly I didn’t make your point. You’re using the fact that it’s not available now as an excuse to continue to do something you know is wrong. It *is* licensed and it *will* be coming out. If they’re true fans of the show they’ll get it that way.
Chihiro’s stance is that “because someone will fansub it anyway it might as well be us” is, well, wrong. Not in the fact that it won’t happen, just in the fact that it appeared you had ethics. Those of us who are saying we’re surprised is because normally when this sort of thing happens it’s a case of epeen. Sure seems to be the case here as well.
I never said it wasn’t wrong. I just said that I don’t care. I’ll say it again: I DON’T CARE ABOUT THE R1 ANIME INDUSTRY. And stop it with the “true fans” bullshit. There is no such thing as “true” or “false” fans. If you watch an anime, and enjoy it, you are a fan, by the very definition of the word.
From wikipedia: “A fan, aficionado, or supporter is someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking and enthusiasm for a sporting club, person (usually a celebrity), group of persons, company, product, work of art, idea, or trend. Fans of a particular thing or person constitute its fanbase or fandom. They often show their enthusiasm by starting a fan club, holding fan conventions, creating fanzines, writing fan mail, or promoting the object of their interest and attention.”
Does it say anything there about how only those who buy are fans?
chihiro’s got balls.
but the logic works out. even if it’s speedsubbed in cambodian binary, people would still watch it free rather than pay 30 bucks for two eps a disc and some crappy trinkets thrown in like plastic rosaries.
“*will* come out in my region makes it totally unnescessary to purchase the DVD’s ”
that’s your problem then. even if it is licensed in R1, the rest of the world don’t have R1 players, so moot point for the 5 billion other people.
it’s classic fear tactics. it’s the same as RIAA but the american anime industry doesn’t have the real money to go past C&D. can you imagine the judge’s face when they see a company go after some teens in cosplay trying to defend their anime? it’ll be a fiasco. they might as well claim bankruptcy.
let’s not forget these companies market a specific audience of anime fans, the nascar-watching, deer-hunting, jesus-loving red-state conservatives that need another form of escapism from their midwestern to southeast lives, other than incest. they’re too lazy to learn the language or even see a japanese person until they piss their credit cards on a trip to akihabara. anime companies know this, that’s why they do stupid shit like dubbing for lazy people that can’t read(i assume blind people have better things to worry about than anime), or cut/censor things for the younger audience.
in any case, if chihiro didn’t do it, gokigenyou is already on it. so there. stick that in your bong and smoke it.
gokigenyou
I don’t see why people get all worked up for something like this.
Just sub the anime, then just stop if you have to. And in the meantime, everyone can then enjoy anime by fansubbers until some next company throws in the C&D. How hard is that? Who the hell even cares if you want a licensed anime? What kind of people watch anime by fansubbers and yet still go around bashing groups just because they are subbing something that’s to be licensed? Give it a rest already.
It looks like I’ll never understand anime, no matter how much I like it.
thank you, Chihiro. we owe you some beers.
“FalseDawn and Mango-chan speak of ethics” Well, they’re bunch of HIPPOCRITES just like TONS of people LURKING at ANIMENEWSNETWORK. Theyre JUST ACTING CLEAN AS IF THEY HAVENT WATCH FANSUBS.
If they speaks of ETHICS, they shouldn’t watch fansubs in the first place, licensed or unlicensed.
R1 dvd dubbed & subbed sucks anyways, Oh and include streaming.
A lot of changes may happen when you dubbed an anime especially if it contains japanese idioms, Puns, or humor contains/features local popular japanese personalities in this case the english dubber change them to US popular personalities (which is wrong, it become cartoony).
lol I like this guy up here. ^ (letni)
majority of the licensed series covers north america distribution only…. so a lot of fansubs & fans are from europe, asia, S. america, middle east which doesnt covered by that scope of distribution. The US copyright laws of course are applied to US & its territories & its underdog countries. Each countries have their own law, so start reviewing you country’s law.
Most countries from EUROPE defended themselves against the GREEDINESS of US companies, that is why some countries insisted that they have their own Copyright laws (Obviously US laws doesnt applies) & they respect product competition. Copyright kills competition, it inhibits competition, thus it sells products in high prices.
Well as you don’t care I guess it’s truly a moot point.
Item of note. Fans of basketball teams don’t steal mascotts, they don’t attempt pre-empt the broadcasts. They don’t steal tickets and then give them away for free.
To all of you giving thumbs up to Chihiro about getting C&D letters and whatnot. Well just remember that DmonHiro doesn’t care and when the company hosting this website shuts it down (because you know first they go after the subbers, then they go after the sites hosting the subbers), and you can’t find it, and then lament “Where for art thou Chihiro!?”.
Just remember, DmonHiro doesn’t care.
it’s free to watch it in japan, raws will continue to flood the net for free. it just so happen that we do not live in japan but the fact remains that it is for free. the licensee have to bear the risk, that has always been the case. even if chihiro stops, then some rogue kick-ass, hardcore group will sub it anyway, i do believe that will be the case as it has always been with a lot of fansubbed animes that have been licensed before it even finished, like for example deathnote. not just one or two group/s stepped up to the plate.
I really don’t mind that you are doing this. But if you get a C&D letter, I hope you do quit this show since it could end up bad for one of my fav groups. But, I will wait for the DVDs anyways since I would end up buying them anyways.
@letni: Actually, assuming that fansubs are better is wrong. They have less time to edit, so many times, their are mistakes throughout. I know the deb in english can be bad most of the time, but the subs typically are good. So please don’t think your opinion is fact.
anyways, i dont care about rightstuf licensed Marimite.
Obviously im not from the US. I hate the LONG WAIT of DVD release, shipping is costly. Anyway im going to purchase the DVD anyway since i already have the 3 season. Goodluck & thank you for continuing subbing season 4.
Plain & separate statement:
Soul Eater, Shikabane hime Kuro, Druaga still continues despite the aggresiveness/ harassment(in the past) of the licensor, perhaps those subs are located somewhere in europe or warzone like in Afg & Iraq, Africa, Antartica, underwater or outer space where the law insisted by the licensor doesnt apply.
Anyway, theyre slow in producing the DVD that is why the subs never ever cease.
Anyways, a lot of countries have their own problems being prioritized. [economy, hunger, poverty, health, violence & corruption, education, environmental changes, unemployment etc. – but anime?]
Even ALL [Majority] of politicians doesnt even care & know about anime.
Even anime is unknown to about 95+% of the TOTAL WORLD POPULATION [est 6billion] & i dont even believe that all 300 Million people (5% of the Earth’s population) know about anime.
Even in Entertainment World, anime is far behind [Hollywood movies, TV shows, Music, Pornography, Sports, Gambling, Local movies, local Tv shows, Gaming, even social networking sites are ahead of anime]
Licensor Should:
1. Licensed each rights of distribution of each country around the world [not just in North America] (obviously they’re poor, thats why they harassed fansubs, its cheaper that way.)
2. Distribute High quality Subs right away after they’ve license a series in DVD/BRay format only. NO STREAMING.
3. Distribute it worldwide(direct selling – no shipping cost/ middlebusinessmen) especially on or before a series airs in japan.
@letni
quote
you got an excelent point there. actually some companies (i wont say names but one do a reaaaaaaally good mecha show) have got their hands on the rigths of the shows and produce them.
on those cases i disscard the fansubs and directly buy their DVD’s. i mean theyre actually producing the show 😉
(but those companies are few and scarce.)
not fishing to see what series the fansubs make popular and then trying to force your $ out of you. and harassing the people that gave them that oportunity
if the show its worth it ill gladly buy the dvd to keep it in my collection. even if i already watched.